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Seanathan`
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 You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points Reply to this post

GROUND WIRES: HOW-TO GUIDE

Here's what you'll need:

-a good 45-60 mins
-11ft of 4 or 8 awg copper power cables
-Knife
-Wire Cutter/Stripper Tool
-12 crimp connectors (openings around 5/16 or 3/8's will be fine)
-Pliers or something similar to crimp ends
-And the obvious socket set for the points you choose to use



(4awg vs 8awg)

Step One: Measure & Cut Wires

What you're going to want to do is make sure you measure each wire by hand so that you'll have just the right amount of wire from each point. You do not want to leave alot of wire dangling around your engine compartment nor do you want to leave your wires too short. When measuring each, make sure you take in to concideration that you will be crimping on ends to the wires.

For example: Here are some points that I chose to use:


Step Two: Crimp on the ends

This is pretty self explanitory. Everyone should know how to crimp on some ends. If your not sure how, send me an IM. I'll walk you through it. Here are my finished wires:

Step Three: Grounding the Wires

Ok, now its time to start grounding the wires. Above, was a brief ms paint job on where I have my grounding points. To this mod there are certain points that must be used. Here's a list of the points:

-Passenger fender
-Driver fender
-Centralized point
-Point on the block
-Tranny grounding point
-Negative battery terminal

The following pictures are Hungalicious' ride with the points that I recommend:

Ground Point One: From fender to throttle body

*note* the black tap on the throttle body can me removed to give you extra thread if you are not going to be using your engine cover.

Ground Point Two: From throttle body to the central point near FPR.

**Caution** do not over tighten this bolt. It is very sensitive and easy to break.


Ground Point Three: From central point to negative terminal on the battery


Ground Point Four From central point to negative ground on tranny


*note* this picture does not show ground wires connected to it. But this is the point you'll use to connect two grounds.

Ground Point Five: Negative ground on tranny to negative terminal on battery
(need picture)


Ground Point Six: Point from negative terminal on battery to point on chassis

*note* Hungalicious used the bolting point near the air box, but I would highly recommend the point on the inner fender. Same point used on passenger fender. Such as black2001aww did here:

Voila! Your done! Now go out and enjoy a cleaner radio, better throttle response, and some extra hp/tq!

*Note*
My points that I used, Hungalicious, and Black2001aww, was recommended to me by some great local guys. You can add as many other points as you'd like. An example of an extra point is the coilpack ground that BlackAWW2001 used:

Now, although you can add as many extra points as you'd like, there are also some points that you cannot change, or not use. These points are:

-Tranny ground
-negative terminal

There are requirements to this mod that you must follow, but you are allowed to change the points. For example, you must have these points:

-Passenger fender
-Driver fender
-Central Point
-Point on block

These points are required but you can change the points. If you find a different bolt on the fenders that you want to try, go for it. Or if you find a better centralized point, try it out. Same for points on the block. These are points that you can experiment with, but you must have.

Also, all these pictures can also be enlarged by adding .orig.jpg

Enjoy!


Modified by Seanathan` at 8:59 PM 11-15-2003
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Seanathan`
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Seanathan`) Reply to this post


Alright guys, I finished the guide. Thank you Hungalicious, Bug Power, Black2001aww, Chris86vw, Nessal, and JudoGTI for the great info and pictures.

And as you can see, my only digital camera is my cellphone, so i'll soon have to get off my ass and meet up with Perfekt or Flyinturbo for use of their cameras


Modified by Seanathan` at 8:42 PM 11-15-2003
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Seanathan`) Reply to this post

Thanks sean!
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Seanathan`
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Nessal) Reply to this post

Here's a better view of some of the grounding points. Thanks Nessal for the pic btw! Oh yeah, and disregard the yellow circle.

Btw, I can take a picture of my engine bay if someone local has a digital camera

Modified by Seanathan` at 11:23 PM 10-6-2003
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Seanathan`) Reply to this post

I've got one.. just let me know when...

Oh, wait.. I guess I could just snap one of my cars FOR you?!
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Seanathan`) Reply to this post


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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Seanathan`) Reply to this post

how does this differ from the stock grounding points, and what benefit does it give....just wondering
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20vWolf
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (AkVdub) Reply to this post

What gains in perfromance have you seen w/your setup compared to HKS's grounding system or this one from Hyper Ground which I posted about a while back http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=746039 ?
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Seanathan`
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (FlyinTurbo) Reply to this post

Quote, originally posted by FlyinTurbo
I've got one.. just let me know when...

Oh, wait.. I guess I could just snap one of my cars FOR you?!

lol. I guess you could. But it would be nice to finally put my car on here
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Seanathan`) Reply to this post

I'm sure between Greg and I, we could get a pic of your engine bay on here.
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evilpat
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Perfekt) Reply to this post

so what about the gains? Better fuel economy, power, etc etc etc . . .
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Seanathan`
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (evilpat) Reply to this post

For gains I have personally noticed better throttle response, a bit more torque, and about 50 extra miles per tank of gas. Like i said, i have them off now but i will be putting them back on and will use the Vag to see any differences.
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Seanathan`
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Perfekt) Reply to this post

Quote, originally posted by Perfekt
I'm sure between Greg and I, we could get a pic of your engine bay on here.

I'll probably be heading to the Pavillions on Sat. Either of you guys going up at all?
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Seanathan`) Reply to this post

Quote, originally posted by Seanathan`
For gains I have personally noticed better throttle response, a bit more torque, and about 50 extra miles per tank of gas. Like i said, i have them off now but i will be putting them back on and will use the Vag to see any differences.

That about convinces me . . . figure about $2 gallon over time = money saved to cover the mod and then some! Bump for more pics.
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (evilpat) Reply to this post

I have no idea what this post is about, buy 50 mpt would be very nice. Please explain what you did.
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Seanathan`) Reply to this post

Quote, originally posted by Seanathan`
I'll probably be heading to the Pavillions on Sat. Either of you guys going up at all?

I believe Saturday is the Globe drive, so unless we are all (don't think Greg is going) back in time for Pavs, we'd have to get together another time.
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Perfekt) Reply to this post

I dont understand the concept behind this!

IN that picture on top with the Yellow lines and circles, are they suppose to represent? Mounting points to run wire to? (5-6)?
Is there a benefit to running more than one ground?
and
Does the # of grounds have an exponantial effect on this mod?

Is this a good deal on these?

Red Heavy Duty Grounding Wire Kit, Universal Retail Price: $99.99
ON SALE NOW! $49.99
FREE SHIPPING


Modified by Juan8Tee at 3:32 PM 10-7-2003
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (mzdaklr) Reply to this post

Quote, originally posted by mzdaklr
I have no idea what this post is about, buy 50 mpt would be very nice. Please explain what you did.

I am blissfully ignorant here too. What exactly are we doing? Re-grounding points in our engine?

Could you please explain this a little more in depth for idiots like me. Thx
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (judoGTI) Reply to this post

Basically, more ground points equals stronger current equals bigger spark equals better burn equals benefits. Good for those looking for that last little bit of extra uumph.
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turbo02gti
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points Reply to this post

What was your logic behind choosing the grounding points that you did? Also, is their any reason to think that this may cause a ground loop of some sort or do you have all termination points going to the same place as the battery ground?
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (turbo02gti) Reply to this post

looks like the grounding points are all spots where the connector will easily screw onto. The points are nicely spread accross the engine. It really doesn't matter where they go, as long as it's metal. Technically, the whole engine is grounded anyway, but at one (or two) primary points. An engine block isn't exactly the greatest conductor, so grounding it all over the place just ensures a nice ground plane for anything requiring a 0V reference.

Ground loops? You're basically creating a much more solid ground plane accross your engine bay. Everything is connected back up to the neg terminal of the battery. A stronger ground point might also help with better radio reception too!

edit:
Juan8Tee -- looks a little expensive for wires and connectors, but on the plus side it looks nice and no soldering is required. It's not an "exponential" difference with the # of grounds. You're just preventing the ground ("0V source") from floating (ie. becoming slightly higher than 0V) on different points of your engine.

how much of a difference will it make? Who knows. You might not even notice it...but as far as electronics and maximizing difference of the voltage potentials accross your engine bay (0V and 12-ish V) the more grounds the better!

Modified by flanders at 9:11 PM 10-7-2003
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (flanders) Reply to this post

heres another stupid question but where does the other end of the wire tap to?like i know one end goes to one of those circcled points but where does that connect to? sorry for the noobie question
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (b0mbasaur) Reply to this post

Quote, originally posted by b0mbasaur
heres another stupid question but where does the other end of the wire tap to?like i know one end goes to one of those circcled points but where does that connect to? sorry for the noobie question

They are daisy chained, start with 2 cables from negative terminal ( the kits come with a terminal adapter), one going to chassis and the other to the first grounding point. No particular order - intake manifold, head, block, transmission and the opposite shock tower. The gains can vary depending on where you attach. Also, the gains are greater for a car with mods, than for a car with no mods - In other words, with a good grounding system, your car is better able to utilize the mods you have done.

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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (lenswerks) Reply to this post

Quote, originally posted by lenswerks

They are daisy chained, start with 2 cables from negative terminal ( the kits come with a terminal adapter), one going to chassis and the other to the first grounding point. No particular order - intake manifold, head, block, transmission and the opposite shock tower. The gains can vary depending on where you attach. Also, the gains are greater for a car with mods, than for a car with no mods - In other words, with a good grounding system, your car is better able to utilize the mods you have done.

Exactly. There are two points that are pretty much a must. One being the negative terminal, and two being the tranny ground point. But you can ground it wherever you wish. Basically on somewhere that is metal. I chose these points because a couple of local guys recommended me these places. I have not messed around with other points, so you guys feel free.
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Juan8Tee) Reply to this post

Quote, originally posted by Juan8Tee

IN that picture on top with the Yellow lines and circles, are they suppose to represent? Mounting points to run wire to? (5-6)?

lol.. between 1-6 that is how many wires you'll need. People were asking me how many wires, and I figured people can could circles, but might get confused on all the lines going every which way. I would recommend enlarging the pictures so that you can see the points better.

Quote, originally posted by Juan8Tee

Is this a good deal on these?

Red Heavy Duty Grounding Wire Kit, Universal Retail Price: $99.99
ON SALE NOW! $49.99
FREE SHIPPING

50 bucks isn't that bad. But they can be made for less than 30 bucks. Also, I originally was ignorant when I bought these and wasn't sure what the hell they were exactly made out of, and what was involved, etc. So I spent 100 bucks when i bought them, and that pretty much seems to be the universal price.

Btw, thank you to the guy who I bought them from, you helped me at the Pavillions figure out what the hell i was doing, and for the extra help. But now I know the secret behind them

Edit: Make sure you get copper wires if you plan on making them yourself. Tomorrow I will be making some new ones, basically because I cannot stand the color I originally got . So I will post tomorrrow how to make these yourself.

Modified by Seanathan` at 9:19 PM 10-7-2003
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Seanathan`) Reply to this post

I'd like to see a pic of it wired up. It seems to me like it would look cluttered under the hood?
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (judoGTI) Reply to this post

Quote, originally posted by judoGTI
I'd like to see a pic of it wired up. It seems to me like it would look cluttered under the hood?


Ahh, I don't think its that bad. I had some baby blue originally, and thats out. So now i'm getting black. But my bay isn't for a show anyway, so it doesn't bother me. As soon as I can get a digi from Perfekt or FlyinTurbo, I'll post some pics too.
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Seanathan`) Reply to this post

currently I went from my motor mount (on the chassis) on the passenger side, to the head->to the block-> Intake Manifold -> Couldn't find where the ground wire was on the Tranny-> then the Negative battery terminal?
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Bug_Power) Reply to this post

let me see if i got this right.

take 6 wires of 6 or 8 gauge. start at the neg. on the battery and jump off to the driver side strut tower, then go from the neg. on the battery to the tranny and then to the intake, head and then to the passenager strut tower. i think i missed one............am i close here?

Anthony
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (vwpassatboy) Reply to this post

One I would add one I would change.

I would make the valve cover one go to the ground on the coil pack harness, just to reinforce it directly at the source.

I would also add one from the alternator housing to the chassis, this has been known to clean up running issues on older cars like G60s.
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (mzdaklr) Reply to this post

Quote, originally posted by mzdaklr
I have no idea what this post is about, buy 50 mpt would be very nice. Please explain what you did.

How in the world did you get 50mpt more from doing this??

That is a huge improvment.
(That would put me back where i was before my MPG went to hell.)

Edit: Would a bad ground result in poorer gas mileage?

Modified by 3wheelinWolf at 10:41 AM 10-8-2003
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (Seanathan`) Reply to this post

If we were going to make these ourselves (which I recommend everyone do, instead of buying them) what composite solder should we use?

I've never soldered such heavy gauge wire before. Thx.
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (judoGTI) Reply to this post

Quote, originally posted by judoGTI
If we were going to make these ourselves (which I recommend everyone do, instead of buying them) what composite solder should we use?

I've never soldered such heavy gauge wire before. Thx.

Just use high quality crimp terminals from a stereo shop, it will be a much better connection.
_______

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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (chris86vw) Reply to this post

Quote, originally posted by chris86vw

Just use high quality crimp terminals from a stereo shop, it will be a much better connection.

Well I know you have argued this quite a bit before, but I was reading this:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread/t-364247.html

And it states
Quote
Instead of the ends being crimped, soldered ends allow more better current, strength, and longevity.

So....

EDIT: It probably doesnt really matter since it's only extra grounding. Where would I find the high quality heavy gauge crimps? Car stereo store?

Modified by judoGTI at 9:56 AM 10-8-2003
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 Re: You asked for it here it is: Grounding Points (judoGTI) Reply to this post

...it all depends if you know how to solder. A crappy cold solder joint will be a horrid connection after a few thermal cycles...
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